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About iOS App: Japanese Support

Giraffe   May 11th, 2012 1:06a.m.

Hey there, I'm a really huge fan on Skritter and the app looks amazing! I'm really looking forward to the Japanese support.

Seeing that I brought it up, I was just thinking about it the other day. This is a good time to ask, since the Chinese language part of the iOS app is nearly finished:

How long might it be before we see the Japanese support for the app? And, since I don't know anything about programming or anything like that, how does/will the process of developing Japanese support differ from development of the Chinese app? Will we be waiting for a long time, or is it simpler than I am thinking? Is it just building off the framework you worked on with the Chinese app?

Sorry if I seem weird or frustrated in my questions, but I'm not impatient! I'm just really curious and even more so excited, seeing how great the Chinese app works... which is a perfect way to describe it. It just works, no question!

nick   May 11th, 2012 1:36a.m.

Good question, Giraffe. Actually, the Japanese app currently has feature parity with the Chinese app except for a couple icons, the demo, and all the marketing stuff. The marketing stuff is a lot of work, so we wanted to do that for Chinese first, launch it, and then see what happens and learn from our mistakes before putting together the Japanese demo and marketing stuff and launching that app. Depending on how it goes, we may or may not also want to add some Japanese-specific features first, like kana writing.

So how long? It's hard to say. No sooner than a couple months, but potentially longer if we learn that it'll be useful to make Japanese-specific improvements first.

Bohan   May 11th, 2012 3:41a.m.

@nick adding Kana writing to the Japanese app would be really cool. I studied Kana but there are about 140 of them, so it's tough to remember them all consistently in the long term.

Avenger   May 11th, 2012 8:39a.m.

Well, I'm using the beta Japanese version now for reviewing kanji from "Remembering the Kanji" and it works great. Will I not be able to use the officially launched app to do the same since it will be the Chinese version?

nick   May 11th, 2012 10:04a.m.

That's right, Avenger. The Japanese app will be in beta a while longer.

Giraffe   May 11th, 2012 1:49p.m.

Thank you for answering my question so quickly! I really appreciate it.
Kana would be a great addition! This is vital I feel because there are some compound words in Japanese that would be helpful to have the kana in the writing. For example, 取り扱い usually uses the kana in its spelling, but words like 買取 don't, even though it's read かいとり. It would help with those people who need that sort of thing. So, if it makes it into the final version, or future versions following, that would be really cool!

I'm really looking forward to the app... it's only a matter of time now!

weirdesky   May 11th, 2012 7:10p.m.

So, ummm this isn't really related to the question at all, but I think you're wrong about those two words, Giraffe:

I took a look on Google for 買い取り and 取り扱い (which also displayed 買取 and 買取り, 取り扱い and 取扱い.)
http://i.imgur.com/lYMNy.png
It looks to me that they're both fairly commonly used spellings.

Furthermore, in most dictionaries, they're in there as 買(い)取り and 取(り)扱い, respectively.

Furtherfurthermore, according to the Japanese governmont, かいとり is not an official reading of 買取 (i.e. if it's used in a newspaper, it would have to have furigana).

Here's the official 常用漢字表(It's the very last thing):
http://www.bunka.go.jp/kokugo_nihongo/pdf/jouyoukanjihyou_h22.pdf

Also, the Japanese app is pretty baller, even while lacking any Japanese-specific add-ons.

bennyboyk   May 12th, 2012 9:31a.m.

Go faster!

Giraffe   May 12th, 2012 11:43a.m.

Thanks for clearing that up, weirdesky!
Actually, I only used them because I couldn't think of a really good example... I should try not coming up with any and just know what I'm talking about instead.
But, there are some words like that, and some of them are written sometimes without furigana and sometimes with. I know they're out there... I just can't actively remember them.

And that link is unbelievably helpful. I didn't even know something like this existed!!

weirdesky   May 12th, 2012 11:42p.m.

You might have been thinking of something like 受付, 引越し, 切符, 場合, 試合, or 日付, all of which would technically have 送り仮名(おくりがな), but are almost never used with them.

Furthermore, I've discovered that I was a little bit wrong about the officialness of dropping that 送り仮名. So I searched around on the internet for a while and found a nice official-looking document (in Japanese, of course). It is all about 送り仮名.

Here it is:
http://www.mext.go.jp/b_menu/hakusho/nc/k19730618001/k19730618001.html

For the kind of thing you're looking for, Just go ahead and search the document for "読み間違えるおそれのない場合は,次の( )の中" There should be two hits. Both of them are kind of related to what you're talking about (the first one is single words like 届け and the second one is about compound words like 書き込む). And then maybe take a look at 通則7, which has the cases of these things when they're in compound words. Keep in mind (almost) none of these are exhaustive lists.

It looks like with most even compound verb in Japanese, it's at least acceptable to drop the 送り仮名 from the first word (as long as it doesn't interfere with comprehension). So this would be things like 申込む, 書込む, 落込む, or 落着く. However, that being said, with compound words like that it's hard to go wrong with full 送り仮名. After all, we're generally not all that pressed for space.

xiaobill   May 21st, 2012 10:08a.m.

Honestly, I think kana support is a waste of time for this type of learning. To really take advantage of Skritter, one needs to have some type of background in Japanese to use effectively (imo). I can't imagine starting off with this app without knowing the basics. I had to learn all hiragana by the my third of my Japanese class, and the only way to do that was to write, write, write. Skritter is a little too lenient for first time learners to use for this purpose(again, imo). Then again, it's the way I learned, and everyone's way of learning is different.

Is there a way to request to be added into the iOS beta testing pool? My iPad is jailbrroken 5.1 version. I know you just said it will be awhile, but just to get on a list when it's ready.

ジェレミー (Jeremy)   May 21st, 2012 9:11p.m.

i was once for the kana support, but now i think i realize it would take up too much time with the kana writings and slow down how much i can review in a time period, it would be nice if it did have kana support to be able to turn it Off-- so far i haven't had any memory problems with no kana support (2 cents)

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