While web sites such as Popup Chinese and Chinesepod undoubtedly have their use as a way to progress in the language in a relaxed way, it seems to me that a lot of the time one is listening to an English explanation of a very limited amount of Chinese vocabulary. A podcast may only be 10 minutes long but listen to a couple of them a day and they quickly add up.
As a beginning learner, I have the feeling I learn a lot more a lot faster by sticking to a good textbook and the associated Skritter list. Conversely, I have a feeling that sticking to learning characters and starting to learn to read (while shadowing the audio) sooner rather than later would be a more efficient learning tool than listening to an interesting conversation in which some Chinese is thrown into the mix (which you then manually have to add to Skritter and spend more time learning) for 10 minutes.
One obviously has to lose the training wheels at one point but as long as one can reach a certain level with textbooks and graded readers, that seems to be the fastest path to proficiency?

I think the problem with your approach (reading with audio companions) is that that resource is limited in other ways - i.e. you must have a tutor (pricey) or you must have access to a good stock of *beginner* level material with audio. Also I think 朗读 is probably the most boring and inefficient way to use a tutor's time (although doing this on your own is worthwhile at some points).

Most textbooks series have a couple dialogues per chapter and around 10-15 chapters per book. That's something like 30 dialogues per "level", which is roughly what ChinesePod recommends also (I think 40) before jumping up to the next level. You'll find at the intermediate level a much larger portion of the banter and explanation is in Chinese, and beyond that is purely in Chinese. If you're finding the lessons you are using to be easy and too English heavy I'd suggest jumping up a level.

Another problem with your approach is that its reading-centric. That's fine if reading is your primary goal, but if you are interested in conversing naturally (and maybe more importantly, understanding natural conversation) the only way to get there is with massive exposure to spoken content; not *just* reviewing a lesson in a textbook until you have *it* down pat. For me a daily lesson from ChinesePod is but one method of exposure (early on it was my primary method, as native material was very difficult to follow at that point).

For me the advantage of Chinese pod is that it's really fun to listen to, and can be done while doing other things. I see it as a completely different kind of learning to working through a textbook or skrittering. Both kinds are valuable, but I don't think they can replace one another. Proficiency needs both. It's also worth bearing in mind that from intermediate up Chinese pod is mostly in Chinese.

To put it another way, I feel I learn less vocabulary with Chinese pod compared to a textbook, but I can use it far better. I just wish it wasn't so expensive...

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback. It is good to know that ChinesePod has a lot more Chinese in their podcasts from the intermediate level up. Given that fact, a daily podcast would be a worthy addition to the curriculum.

Now that I am reviewing the whole of New Practical Chinese Reader book 1 again (made the mistake of learning only the individual characters the first time around), I only do one hour every few weeks with the tutor, just to verify that I remain on the right track and to practice some speaking.
She raised her prices by 40%, from $5 to $7 an hour, but 4 lessons a month will hardly break the bank and I have found the feedback to be very useful. It also makes it easier to stay disciplined and stick to your x words a day, y pages of reading and shadowing audio, z podcasts, etc. routine when you know that one week later you will have to put it all into practice.

$7 an hour? Where are you living? If she's any good that is an amazing price.

Hi Josh, Grace has been a middle school English teacher in Shanxi for more than 20 years and teaches Chinese and English through italki.com outside of her regular school hours (generally from 1 PM until 9 PM Chinese time, but all day during the weekend). After 1017 sessions, she has a 100% approval rating and a 99.71% attendance rating.

"That Benny guy" had sessions with her while he was doing his Mandarin in 3 months challenge. Apparently he only wanted to practice conversation. No textbook. No idea if he is still one of her 126 students.

She provides all the study materials you need. She is also very fair. On two occasions, I had overslept. Although I insisted on paying for the sessions, she gave me two free sessions afterwards. If you decide to schedule some lessons with her, tell her that Johan (Fan Bohan) sent you. :-)

http://www.italki.com/teacher/T001483415.htm

I find iMandarinPod to be very useful. There is no english at all (save for a few vocabulary translations in the accompanying text). I find the quality to be excellent though, and at three lessons a week they have a good pace. Might be a bit difficult for a true beginner, but I found that going through the text first with a dictionary helped a lot at the beginning.


http://www.imandarinpod.com/hoola/

@ 范博涵 I think you've misunderstood Josh - he's saying that $7 per hour is a good price for even a average 1 on 1 teacher (i.e. that a hike from $5 to $7 is relatively insignificant for more language students in a position to hire a private tutor).

I've used her also, and agree that she's a good teacher and well worth the money - not sure what your gripe regarding price is.

@icebear: the price hike was mentioned as a result of you mentioning "a tutor (pricey)" in your reply above, to which I replied that even though she raised her prices by 40%, a couple of lessons at $7 will hardly break the bank. Not quite sure how that can be misunderstood and thought of as a gripe, or why you initially stated that a tutor is pricey, considering that you also used her. :-)

I was just trying to explain josh's comment.

I don't think any of the prices mentioned here are pricey, but said "(pricey)" in reference 1 month of ChinesePod lessons relative to one month of tutoring for the same amount of learning time.

Yeah. A lot of source materials can actually be obtained for free with little effort, so a tutor will always be more expensive.
Will have to pick your brain regarding a more speaking-centric approach in a different topic.

What kinds of lessons are you guys having with her? Are you following the chapters in NPCR?

I am (or will be again, soon). I believe icebear reviews his ChinesePod lessons with her.

@Olaf I export the 100-150 most recent words I've studied in Skritter and prune out any which are too easy (e.g. anything in the HSK1-3 band) and then send them to my tutor the night before the lesson. All we do is have a conversation for a hour where
a) she ensures I speak the majority of the time - mostly she asks very open questions on a topic which I can then respond to for several minutes each while she helps guide my response when I'm at a loss of words
b) she corrects my tones and grammar fairly strictly - we end up spending a lot of time going over a particular mistake in grammar I've made, the correct structure to use, and then she will suggest a half dozen other examples where that structure would be useful and I have to produce accordingly
c) she guides the conversation to situations where the words in question will be usable (and provides hints in that direction if I don't pick up on the theme!)
d) in the above structure I generally give a first stab at an answer, she clarifies what I mean in some areas, then suggests a better way to state my answer, which I then have to reproduce (not exactly, but with sufficiently good grammar and tones)

The teacher 范博涵 is using is reasonably good, but the best I've found so far on italki is this one: http://www.italki.com/teacher/T008358439.htm
At $10 not the cheapest on italki, but I am not looking to fill my hours with average teaching when I can get much more out of a hour with a really great teacher. Her credentials speak for themselves (I think), and I'm very happy to keep buying from her at least until I move back to Beijing in July.

icebear, you're moving to Beijing in July? In which capacity? If I'd be able to find a job there at a decent wage (not realistic with my current level of Chinese) I'd move there pronto.

@范博涵 Yes, for a professional opportunity.

@malaili2: see Nick's first post in http://www.skritter.com/forum/topic?id=170928405 for more information about shadowing.

@icebear: may I ask what your profession is? I thought you were still working on your Master's degree? If you passed that already: congratulations!

@范博涵 Thanks. A few more weeks until I finish, but I already have a contract in hand, so pretty comfortable. My background is in economics.

icebear, double congrats! Did you decide to get a master's degree with the express purpose of finding a job in Beijing?
If your company ever needs a good system administrator/analyst, do let me know. Currently working for Microsoft, but would love to live and work in Beijing.
This must be a dream come true for you. :-)

Hi 范博涵, I saw in the "sample sentence" thread that you mentioned you use your mouse to study characters. I started to write a post to reply, but felt it was a bit off topic - since this thread is about study efficiency, I wanted to write it here. First, I want to make sure I understood correctly - you are using a mouse when studying with Skritter? This may be the biggest reason why you are having problems retaining characters.

When I first joined Skritter, I used a mouse as well. I am in a remote area of China, and had no access to Touchpads. However, I wasn't retaining the characters at all. Or I would forget them if I didn't see them again for a few days.

I read somewhere that the physical act of writing actually increases memory retention. China has grid paper for writing, and I bought some. Instead of writing on the screen with my mouse, I would:
1) write by hand on paper at each prompt;
2) "Reveal strokes" on the computer to check my stroke order;
3) Mark the prompt as correct/incorrect as appropriate.

(This was before the app; now I use a stylus to write on my iPod touch, which is fantastic).

By writing on paper, I was suddenly able to memorize characters a lot easier. There is something to be said for "muscle memory" - sometimes when I think I don't know a character, my hand will still write it out correctly because the stroke order is imprinted in my brain. If you are struggling with remembering characters, you may try physically writing them down on paper - the time invested is not much, and may have greater returns than researching the etymology of characters.

atdlouis, thanks for your feedback. I have also been considering to write on paper, in addition to using Skritter. The general idea was to write every character down 7 times and then write the pinyin/tone, after learning the character in Skritter. Not necessarily to help my muscle memory (I still do most of my studying at home, on my Wacom Bamboo) but because of the simple logic that learning how to write is not very useful unless you actually put it into practice. You see, I want to surprise my wife with horribly written postcards, which will gradually morph into masterpieces of Chinese calligraphy.

I learned 13 new characters at work today, only looking up the etymology once or twice. The more different components I learn, the more easy it seems to be to come up with a story.

If you feel that using a stylus on an iPod/iPhone is that much better, I am looking forward to trying it. Which stylus are you currently using?

Ha, sorry about that. Looks like you are way ahead of me. I guess you just use your mouse at work when you don't have the Wacom. Glad to hear you are learning characters quicker.

I just use a Lention pen/stylus. I tried to find online pictures of it, which is here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CG8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Ffm-store%2F108702%2F211424061-531784869%2FLention-Multi-function-capacitive-stylus-writing-pen-moblie-pen-touch-pen-for-Apple-iPhone.html&ei=viG8T72EOOSmiQKQ6J3gDQ&usg=AFQjCNHuyxp8iqcHaqPhQ6sXUAVLVh81dQ&sig2=n4sUmDRc7HqDfHGZs3oeIg

It's not for sale on Amazon; I don't know where else to get it, besides in my town in China. The rubber tip creates friction on the glass, so I just put some chapstick on the nib. Then it goes really fast, but I understand some people may not want to keep putting chapstick on their iPhone :)

Chapstick is an interesting way to reduce friction.

Here is another method I use on my cheap, rubber tipped stylus.

Pool Cue Chalk (no joke....). So like playing pool, every now and again you just can re-chalk the tip of the stylus. I actually use this and it works very well.

To start, I was concerned that the fine powder might get into the iPhone/iPad switches and on the side of the screen. but that does not seem to be a problem at all. There is just not enough powder - and its very fine, so residue is negligible (in my view). I also find that my fingers will dirty up the screen far more than the chalk ever will.

I just had a mental image of you playing a pool/snooker game on the iPad, and someone walking past as you were applying cue chalk to your stylus... (sorry）